Virtua Fighter 5: Eileen

VFDC WIKI

2008-05-17T12:08:00.000-07:00

So i've graduated from the blog to my wiki. So now I'll be taking my notes about eileen over the vfdc's wiki page for eileen here's a link.
http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:eileen:strategy

I'll still talk about new things here but most of the gold will go to the wiki now.

Combo Video

2008-03-02T17:28:00.000-08:00

so I made a combo video over the weekend for everyone. I'm pretty proud of it, and it even reminded me of some combos that I'd forgot about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fiMVRdSnV50

Fuzzy Monkey

2008-02-21T03:34:00.001-08:00

normal fuzzy at -5
PP6P
PPP2KK
2P
3P
6P
9P
8P
4K
6K+G
4K+G BT you have to crouchdash in direction you're turned to fuzzy
46K+G
2K+GK
K+G BT you have to crouchdash in direction you're turned to fuzzy

crouchdash fuzzy at -6
PP
1P
2PP
8K
3K
6P+K
3P+K

Yomi Monkey trainer

2008-02-12T12:33:00.000-08:00

through some PMs last week Sweep shared with me some of his Yomi set-ups and I feel it should be shared and added to. I want this thread to be a source for all eileens as a way to mix up situations outside of nitaku. These strategies will work when you have read your opponent. I repeat these things aren't all guaranteed they're just good ways to mix things up.

Post-sabaki sequence:

46K > throw

46K [stagger] > 6P [crouch stagger] > 63214 P+G

46K [stagger] > 6P [crouch stagger] > PK
if they can't struggle fast

46K [stagger] > dash in > 9K+G
RISKY but high reward vs lightweights

46K > 6P+KP > 214P > 6K
You can start this from any stagger as long as your opponent is bad at getting out of them.If 6P+K hits while they're staggered it still will launch

Ways to get out of this Post-Sabaki Sequence:

Abare PK or PP is pretty strong once you've been sabaki'd. It clashes the throw and can interrupt some mids (I think her 6P is too quick though.) A strong technique for sure.

Things to do on TR Oki after they've gotten up:

throw

P

6P

9K+G
risky

PK games:

PK > 6P+K CH > 236KKK
best option to beat 2P spammers since 6P+K beats 2P with +4 adv

PK > delay P+K CH > 236KKK
Good to beat delayed attempts of a 2P

PK > 6P
beat 2P spammers and will crouch stagger if they're just ducking. Even if they block the situation is +/-0 so you're safe.

PK > [tightly buffered] 2_3P+K CH > 236KKK
When in open stance can be very effective at beating 2P's for a CH. In closed, I would recommend something else.

PK > [tightly buffered] 2_3P+K CH > 236P+K > P+G
Good way to force your opponent to have to react after blocking the shoulder.

PK > 4K+G > BT
Will beat side step spammers but you have to notice which side they like to sidestep to.

PK > K+G
Will also beat side step spammers. I use this when I don't know which side they're sidestepping to because they mix it up too well

PK > throw
When they fear the circular and mid options and start blocking.

PK~G > throw
A smart opponent know that after a P K is guaranteed so they won't abare hence a throw is easier to get. Won't work on dumb opponents as well though.

PK > backdash > 46P
Great for baiting a high retaliation attack and will net a surprising amount of damage off of opponents eager to attack when they see a backdash. Also great for failed evades.

PK > P > throw
bread and butter. even if your opponent evades the P you're still at advantage so throw or even another single P will beat them down.

PK > OMP
will beat 2P & throw, but if your opponent delays their attack you're going to be hit. . . I think. OM is wierd.

PK > 236P+KK CH > 6P+KPP
This of this as a tracking mid. It's not the best option since you can get hit out the flip easily but it beats fuzzy/2p/defensive techs and gives you advantage on block and on CH launches

PK > 236P+K > P+G
Again you can get hit out the flip so not always the best option but when your opponent is frozen up from all the other options this throw will really piss them off.

SweeptheLeg

2008-01-28T21:04:00.000-08:00

So I played sweep the leg a lot these past few weeks and I've learned a lot from him. He has much better technique than I do and a stronger oki game. I decided to work on my own oki game from watching Srider vids. I noticed he used 3K+G timed properly will beat all rising attacks like kage's 9K+G. I also worked on OMing out of the way of rising attacks. I found that OMing in the direction of my front foot will yield a missed rising attack. Though I'm still shaky on this even in dojo.
here's some gold from Sweep and me's PMing
Sweep:
Short wall combo: 6P+G6 > P or PP [wall stagger] > 33P > 2P [refloat] > 6P+K,P,P

The 2P refloat works for lightweights to light middleweights (I think - it might be lightweight only) - other weights you can still use this combo, just eliminate the 2P part. This is the short wall version of the more damaging, high wall only 6P+G6 > P or PP [wall stagger] > 33P > PP236KKK.

Post-sabaki sequence: for a while, I was dashing in to throw but then you got wise and started ducking. So I changed it to: 46K [stagger] > 6P [crouch stagger] > 63214 P+G. I believe you can also get guaranteed PK damage after the 6P crouch stagger, which I would have switched to once you got wise to this new technique. That's why I love her sabaki -- it creates a strong guessing game afterwards. Abare PK or PP is pretty strong once you've been sabaki'd. It clashes the throw and can interrupt some mids (I think her 6P is too quick though.) A strong technique for sure.

My 9K+G flow chart is definitely risky (Srider would probably hate it \:\) ), but it is very high reward vs. lightweights! I use it in the same way I used 6P to crouch stagger. After a stagger, if the opponent knows how to struggle at all, I'll throw them until they start ducking. After they get wise to it (and start crouching) I then dash > 9K+G. I also use it during oki as an anti-crouch move; so, if people get scared of the oki throw as they stand and duck to counter, I try to yomi it and launch with 9K+G.

9K+G > PP236KKK is great damage for a relatively simple yomi game. If they block it...they get guaranteed strong mids or PK though. But it's fun to play Eileen risky and abare. \:\)

Also, I don't know if you noticed it, but I was trying to implement 9P+K+G into oki. It freezes people because she jumps forward and it looks like an attack -- then she lands BT and you can start the 2K+G / P+K mind game again. It's something I'm trying to add to my oki game so it doesn't get predictable. I only used it like 3 times against you but I think it was successful each time.

LvL UP!

2008-01-01T22:24:00.000-08:00

I lvled up today after getting beaten by chibiaya for the past few days. Chibiaya lvled up this past week when he switched to jacky. Him being one of my sparring partners meant that I had to step up to his new lvl now. I made it my quest to stand toe to toe with him once again. He noticed I had a lot of mistakes in my playing that I didn't even notice was there. I used his input to fix these problems. I found that I have a pretty solid offense it was my defense that was getting me killed but that wasn't anything new to me.

So I was able to start winning becuase I noticed some kinks in chiaiya's game while playing him. He was relying on sidesteps far too much. He was dodging my attacks far too often so it was annoying for me at first. Once I started seeing him do failed evades on the regular I started to just throw him.

I also played into one of jacky's faults as a character. If you evade to his back his followup attack generaly misses you. He was also using moves that weren't really safe if evaded and were linear so I'd evade the attack then use P+K. This sometimes lead to a CH which I'd follow with PK. The Correct combo to use was CHP+K< P+K< PK but I kept not capitalizing on it being a CH. I need to practice using it more because I'm obviously not used to it working.

End of story after having been able to finally step up to chiayia's lvl it's even more fun to play vf5. It becomes een more of a mindgame. It's the next lvl of competition. I can also beat lower lvl people more quicly now tooo.

Oki game

2007-12-29T20:54:00.000-08:00

I was playing around in dojo today and found some nice oki tools. Along with some help from the shout box (fulaani, sweeptheleg) to inspire me to make this.

Basic oki
---------
214P+K Hop back to punish with P, one of eileen's bread and butter oki games. You can use wari after the hop to give yourself more time for the opponent to stop blocking for your P to hit if need be.

Advanced Oki

Getting under Mid rising kick
-------------

2_3P+K will duck under a rising mid kick. ONLY in open stance though so be careful.

1P< wari duck will avoid rising mid kick then if you follow up with the K you'll get a sideturned position

Getting over Low rising kick
-----------------

46P+K done at the last second, meaning you can do it well after you've seen your opponent start a low rising attack, will hop over the attack and you will knock them down. For another oki game.

1P < wari jump will avoid rising low kick then if you follow up with the K you'll get a sideturned position

236P+K flip will jump over low rising kick but it has to be done early so you have to know it's coming. You can follow with a P for a bounce combo 6P+KPP or go for the K if you did the flip a little too late

Power of 46K

2007-12-13T06:10:00.000-08:00

So 46K was a move I never really utilized very well. As I've been all about improving my defense as of late this move along with 46P came to mind. Now if you don't know already 46K is eileen's sabaki where she kicks you which leads to a stagger. It sabaki's HP,EL,MP so basically all punches except double handed and low punch. VERY useful. I have been centering my offense/defense around this move. It's been great for killing noobs. They never learn or they just don't know what it sabaki's hence they get tore up because after the stagger you can throw if they break out the stagger well or go into 66P>6P+KP>236KKK that's about half life right there or 1/3 it's a shitton.

So how do you use this move just hit it when you expect a punch right? Well yeah if you have czy good yomi you could predict when your opponent will punch you and catch them off guard, but that can be hard for us mere mortals. What I've been doing is using the first two rounds to figure out the general punching pattern of my opponent if they're good at mixing things up, otherwise I can read them in a few seconds and start to use 46K to interrupt them mid string.

The kick is most effective when used from blocking or while being hit, yes you can use it when you've been hit because the sabaki properties start as soon as you enter the command. So if you know your opponents strings you can dominate them if they're not mixing up kicks and punches. A lot of characters have 2_3 or 2_6 style Punches that they go into after a 2P so it can be a good move to use to abare since it'll beat the punch and the throw. Again you have to use good yomi to see the patter your opponent has.

If you're really good at yomi and know the strings of your opponent well you can use 46P which ducks High is czy fast and leads to an unavoidable P>6P+KPP (everyone) or 6P+KP>236KKK (some chars) I don't think it goes under special high's though so be careful.

Another move I've recently gotten good at using is 214PP. At first I thought it was useless, a two hitting high move psha. But somewhere in the forums I learned the second P is actually a special High which means it'll beat Low punch *-) now that's a good property. On guard the first P leaves you at -2 which means you are pretty safe to all but 10Frame punchers. They can only decide the throw you which you can still beat with a P to the face or by continuing the string. Then if they have a 10Frame punch you have to recognize this and use the second P in the string. Then you have vanessa's 6Frame punch to deal with, and if your opponent likes to use this or you see them hitting you after this string with that then continue the second hit of the string more often to show her who's boss.It's a very powerful flowchart, it's not a nitaku I think but it's damn strong.

So here's the flowchart for using that move. Use your preferred cancelable move
canceled move>214P>throw
canceled move>214P>OMP>stagger hit>nitaku
canceled move>214PPCH>6P+KP>236KKK
canceled move>214PP>6Pstagger>nitaku

Flowcharts

2007-12-10T03:47:00.000-08:00

So today I had a good run. I fought Chibiaya and was able to hold my own. I actually was able to fight on equal ground with him. I was able to smash HerkdawgIII but I think he was more rusty and i was hot from having just fought Chibiaya. Then I played against RedSonRising a friend that herkdawgIII found who'd seen a lot of our vids. The other day he brought out his wolf for the first time against me and I had a really hard time winning. I was actually getting beat more than not. But today I was able to actually apply the knowledge I've been trying to work on.

Finally I fought Manjimaru for a good hour or so. He was another akira player and he wiped the floor with me for a while. Strangely enough i wasn't getting frustrated from the losses though because I wasn't losing because I wasn't inputing correctly but because I didn't quite know how to stop akira's offense. I was slowly starting to figure it out and by the last 20min I was winning every few matches. Afterward we talked about ways I could beat him more regularly and I'm going to start making a list of the strategies to be implemented and flowcharts to be used.

Flowcharts
--------------------------

PP> 6P or 236P+K>mixups or throw or pause 6P

I'll come back to explain these later. I feel like the follow up options deserve a section of their own so just keep reading down the page.

3P+G(BT) P,3P,K

apparently Manjimaru has used this with great success. I am going to start using it and find out some if it is truely as powerful as he thinks it might be. Normally I wouldn't use this unless I find my opponent is 2P me after the 3P since the follow-up K will beat for a stagger>big combo. Maybe the BT state confuses people. From my initial testing on Lenard_McCoy it seems to work well to catch people by surprise. I wouldn't want to abuse it

PK~G>6P or Throw

This will work on more advanced players but can be risky against lower lvl's. This is because a noob won't know they should block the K so they'll probably mash a p and you'll end up getting hit. Works wonders on better players though. I knew about the throw but I ever thought of using 6P before to mix it up

236P+K,K>OMP or 2P or PP>mixups

after the flip K you are at +1 which is a great place to be. It means if you OMP and your opponent 2P's you will get a CH and stagger =awesomeness. From that you can go to your 6P+K,P combo.

alright I'm going to sleep i'm going to edit this later

Punishment

2007-12-09T18:18:00.001-08:00

I'm going to assume the opponent has a 10f punch since I'm making a general list.

to start off though I want to ask, how long does it take to guard, or am i misunderstanding something?

Fuzzy Guarding

2007-12-09T18:07:00.000-08:00

Moves you should do a regular Fuzzy Guard after. (ie. no having to crouch dash). I'm going to leave out moves where fuzzy gurading might actually hurt you (ie you're at advantage). For those of you who don't know what fuzzy guarding is, it's when you're at less than -6 and you hold 2 every so slightly while holding guard then you go back to nutral position. What you end up getting is the ability to crouch a throw and still make it up in time to beat the fastest mid option.

All moves are assuming your opponent guarded

PP
PP6P
PPP2KK
2P
46P
1P
1PK
3P
6P
6PP
6PP2P
4P
4PP
9P
8P
8K
K
3K
4K
4P+K
6P+K
3P+K
P+K
6K+G
4K+G
4K+GK
46K+G
2K+GK
OMP
236K
214P
214PP
214P+K,K
BT2P
BTP+K

Uploads!

2007-12-02T01:54:00.000-08:00

Nothing new fighting wise yet but here is some vids of the progress I've made. The vids against NinjaCW's eileen are pre-learning niktau implimentation and the vids against HerkdawgIII's vane are post. Enjoy. I'll update this post later to have the best fights linked showing my use of the nitkau.

http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=viper28087

nitaku quest

2007-12-01T01:18:00.001-08:00

This is going to be a quickie, just an update on my nitaku use status and it's been getting better. I've been getting steady wins ore often and with more intent due to being better at applying the LP>nitaku which is VERY strong.

Some thoughts

2007-11-30T01:10:00.000-08:00

I'd like to note that I'm glad I've found out eileen's nitaku game, I have not found it to be her strong suit. It's hard to get those CH's off on good players. Perhaps I need to think of some strings and strategy's that give me the desired CH's I'm looking for.

Good news it's a repository

2007-11-29T23:46:00.000-08:00

Yesterday i fought Subbers for a great deal of time and Chibiaya for a great deal of time. It was my day two of trying to fix my style of fighting that was hittng a road block. The block has now been cleared away thanks to Chibiaya's input on my style. When fighting his akira I noticed he was throwing the crap out of me, aswell as fuzzy guarding me a lot which I wasn't used to being done so regularly since on ranked most people don't do that stuff. I almost feel like ranked battles might've been messing me up because I'm trying to learn the mistakes I'm making but I keep having to fight noobs whom I can do anything against and still get the wins, though sometimes I'd lose and not understand why.

Basically I was sidestepping wayyyy too much. I had become reliant on it. When I'm playing my friends this is fine because I know their patterns I know when they're probably going to throw me. The problem was I was not used to reacting and more used to just relying on the past battles with the opponnent. This is why I wasn't able to adapt to new play styles quickly. So I'd eat a bunch of FC's and throws due to this.

Now what I'm doing is fuzzy guarding a lot more to deal with high and mid attacks, for lows I just stay low which is a little easier to do when you're already down there to begin with. I forced myself to use this technique today not side stepping unless I absolutely had to. I don't play to keep playing without sidestepping at all but against the scrubs that are online I should be able to beat them with minimal sidstepping. You know if someone comes along and they're doing the right answers to my fuzzy guarding then I'll be forced to use sidestep ofcourse. I'm hoping through this training I'll be able to slowly have my eyes opened as to when to sidestep and when to use other defensive techniques like sabaki's and fuzzy guard. I really want to get to the point where I can sabaki someone after 1 punch on reaction. I was able to do it against HerkdawgIII today . . . well once after 2 punches. I ate a lot of 3rd punches because of it but it's alright I'm still learning the timing.

A lot of it is just not being scared and going for it.

Oh and Subbers is helping me a lot in my training because I know if I'm able to get some wins on him w/e I'm doing is working and will work on other people. Till next time. Oh and I recorded the herkdawgIII vids from today so I'll be posting them sometime soon. AnD I still need to finish posting the mirror matches between me and NinjaCW

Troubles

2007-11-27T23:50:00.000-08:00

I got in some matches today against Denkai in ranked and did a bunch of player matches with subbers, well that's his xbl name I keep forgetting his avitar name, apparently he and Denkai are RL friends too so that's kinda cool. So I spent most of the night running through people in ranked battles using my newly found nitaku situations and for the most part it was working out real well. I found after a PK punish I could get to a 6P+K CH to happen almost every time which lead to my fav 236KKK netting nice damage. I was able to beat subbers a total of maybe 5 times out of about 15, but when he'd win he'd win by a lot, I was squeaking by on my wins. After his 4thn win in a row I started to look at myself play and I noticed I was falling into patterns. Oh I forgot to mention it was against his Aoi. I was getting sidestepped a lot and it didn't even occur to me what to do to fix this problem. My automatic response when I noticed I was getting sidestepped was "start using 214PP in your strings" problem was he was evading the first attack not mid string so I couldn't cancel into that. This lead me to thin i was falling into my own traps which is predictability. I wasn't using eileen's movelist to it's fullest effect. I started to use K+G when I felt the urge to do a linear attack and it netted me some rounds, but I had to think really hard to not be linear. What was nice however was I ran into Denkai's jacky again later that night and was able to fight against him much better than I was able to before. I actually won a round haha. His jacky just keeps doing safe moves I feel locked down the whole battle.

It all boils down to my lack of good defense. I was getting rushed down by two good players and I didn't really know how to handle it. I've been rushing other people down for so long with my characters I never had the chance to work on being rushed down. However learning better defense is something you just have to learn from playing good players. I'm a little stumped on this problem atm. Untill next time

Nitaku attacks

2007-11-27T16:24:00.001-08:00

So far from my readings up on frame data and fuzzy guard it appears to me that you can do a 19 frame attack after a true nitaku situation meaning when you're at +7 or more. Now Eileen has a lot decent amount of attacks that fit this bill but only the mid attacking ones are worth note because they will force your opponent into doing either a P or throw.

Nitaku moves

throw
6P+K if this CH's go into 236KKK
6P fastest option
3P if this CH's go into 236KKK
2_3P+K if this CH's go into 236KKK
9K+G > PP > 236KKK (thanks for input sweep)

Nitaku Starters

2007-11-27T09:14:00.001-08:00

So I was incorrect thankfully pointed out by KoD that you need to be at +7 for true nitaku sitations to take place. A +4 like I previously thought based on my assumption that PK was a nitaku was incorrect thanks for pointing this out KoD.

New Nitaku Situation List

PCH>nitaku
2PCH>nitaku
1PKCH>nitaku
6PCH>nitaku
4PCH>nitaku
K+GCH>nitaku
OMP>CHnitaku
OMKCH>nitaku

Reason being that you need +7 is because at +6 or less your opponent can still fuzzy guard. Fuzzy guarding meaning that they can both crouch a throw attempt and still be able to get up in time to block your fastest mid attack. This doesn't mean the previous list was useless because the opponent still needs to know that they can do this after those attacks. I'll have to think about some way to implement that previous list of attacks into some sort of strategy. It looks like all of eileen's nitaku situations arise from Counter Hit which thankfully due to her quick moves isn't too hard to come by. Now I finally understand what Srider ment by I wasn't using eileen's P strings effectively. I should really be baiting for that CH then use 6P+K or throw afterward. I can't wait to try this stuff out after I take my nap.

The quest starts

2007-11-27T06:57:00.000-08:00

Thanks to chibiaya for giving me the idea to even start this kind of thing. I'm basically going to reflect on my training with eileen and my general quest to get better in the game of vf5 using my main girl eileen. For a while I used to think that I'd never be able to play a fighting game at it's highest level or even make a serious attempt to especially with vf. It's the most respected fighter out there even if not the most popular, so I am honored and proud that I have decided to achieve this goal. From my run in with people from the forums and some randoms online I've found that I really need to learn all the nitaku situations that Eileen can create. The only nitaku I know right now is the LP>throw LP>mid nitaku and the PK>throw PK>mid nitaku. My problem is that I don't know how many frames ahead you need to be for you to be able to claim something is nitaku. Okey so I just checked out eileen's ver c command list and found that on hit for both of those nitaku situation starters she's at +4 so that must be the minimum amount of frames you need to apply nitaku pressure. What I need to do now is find out how many situations I can find that give me at least +4 on hit and start using all of those as nitaku situation starters.

Nitaku starters

PK>nitaku
2P>nitaku
P>nitaku
PP6PCH>nitaku
1PCH>nitaku
1PK>nitaku
3PCH>nitaku
6PCH>nitaku
6PPCH>nitaku
4P>nitaku
3KCH>nitaku
4KCH>nitaku
4P+KCH>nitaku
6P+KPCH>nitaku
1P+KCH>nitaku
P+K>nitaku
6K+GCH>nitaku
4K+GCH>nitaku
4K+GKCH>nitaku
K+GCH>nitaku
OMP>nitaku
OMK>nitaku

Alright so here's end of my first post. Next I'm going to look at the different moves I can do for different frame advantages